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Women, Men, Mutuality, and the Bible CBE’s Mutuality Matters podcast is part of CBE International’s online library of free resources! Hosts of CBE’s Mutuality Matters team offer weekly conversations with leaders, pastors, authors, scholars, activists, and humanitarians on women, men, shared leadership, and Scripture. CBE International (Christians for Biblical Equality) advances the gospel by equipping women and men of all cultures, races, and classes to lead and serve as equals. Founded in 1989, CBE has supporters and ministry partners in over 100 denominations and 65 countries, and offers annual conferences, adult and youth curricula, a curated bookstore, multi-media resources, award-winning publications, and a blog. Learn more at cbeinternational.org.
Episodes

Saturday Oct 01, 2022
Saturday Oct 01, 2022
This month on the “Women and Men Leading Together” thread, hosts Layla and Rob speak with Bette Dickinson, an artist, and author who paints a beautiful picture of women and men partnering together in ministry, and of a church that listens to both the mother and father voices of God. Come learn from Bette as she exhorts us to systemic change, intentionally developing women, male advocacy, and elevating the stories of women.
Bio:
Bette Dickinson is a prophetic artist, writer, and speaker who invites audiences to connect with God through visual parables of the spiritual journey in her ministry Awakening the Soul. Bette earned her MDiv with an emphasis in pastoral studies and has worked with ministries like InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, World Vision, Infinitum, and Kensington Church to awaken the soul through beauty and wonder. Bette and her husband live in Traverse City, Michigan, with their two boys.
Connect with Bette
Facebook: @BetteLDickinson
Instagram: @Bette_Dickinson
Further Reading
Making Room in Advent by Bette Dickinson
https://www.ivpress.com/making-room-in-advent
To subscribe to Bette’s newsletter and receive a copy of her painting of Mary’s Magnificat along with an audio reflection, text justice to 33777.

Friday Sep 23, 2022
Introducing a Great Theologian: My Grandmother with Dr. Yolanda Pierce
Friday Sep 23, 2022
Friday Sep 23, 2022
On this episode of Mutuality Matters, host Angela sits down with Dr. Yolanda Pierce, dean of Howard University School of Divinity, and author of In My Grandmother’s House: Black Women, Faith, and the Stories We Inherit. Pierce lifts the role of church mothers in the Black church tradition, centering their experiences as they both taught and protected her so that as a Black woman she would survive in this world. Through them, she learned about, “The Divine who has been showing up at the kitchen tables of Black women for a long time.” Listen and learn how a grandmother’s theology carries wisdom strong enough for future generations. Disclaimer: sexual abuse and trauma are mentioned in this episode. Listener discretion is advised.
Further Reading:
In My Grandmother’s House Black Women, Faith, and the Stories We Inherit: https://www.amazon.com/My-Grandmothers-House-Stories-Inherit/dp/1506464718?tag=mochaglobal10-20&ascsubtag=srctok-b63e47f7a51c4734&btn_ref=srctok-b63e47f7a51c4734
Hell Without Fires: Slavery, Christianity, and the Antebellum Spiritual Narrative (History of African American Religions) https://www.amazon.com/Hell-Without-Fires-Christianity-African-American/dp/0813068592/ref=sr_1_1?crid=16ODZ9ZE394DV&keywords=Hell+without+Fires&qid=1663891253&s=books&sprefix=hell+without+fires%2Cstripbooks%2C92&sr=1-1’
Bio:
Yolanda Pierce is a professor and dean of Howard University School of Divinity. She is a scholar of African American religious history, womanist theology, race, and religion, as well as a public theologian, activist, and commentator. Pierce served as the founding director of the Center for the Study of African American Religious Life at the National Museum of African American History & Culture. Her writings have appeared in Time, Sojourners, and The Christian Century, and she is the author of the book Hell Without Fires. Pierce lives in Washington, D.C.
Web: yolandapierce.com
Twitter: @YNPierce
Facebook: /ynpierce

Friday Sep 16, 2022
(New Voices) Porn and Patriarchy with Mallory Ellington
Friday Sep 16, 2022
Friday Sep 16, 2022
On this week’s episode of Mutuality Matters, hosts Blake and Erin bring on guest and author, Mallory Ellington, to talk about the fall issue of Mutuality Magazine, “The Problem of Porn: Women, Men, Intimacy, and the Church.” With Erin and Mallory both contributing articles to this issue, the three discuss pornography, patriarchy, and other orbiting topics that are addressed in the magazine. This episode mentions issues of porn addiction, sexual violence, and struggles with sexual sin. Listener discretion is advised.
Get a digital copy of the magazine here: https://www.cbeinternational.org/publication/mutuality-blog-magazine/current-print-issue
Bio
Mallory Ellington is currently working as a prison GED instructor at Walker State Prison. She received her master of theological studies from Asbury Theological Seminary. She writes about the theology of the body, spiritual anthropology, and other topics that interest her. In her spare time, she loves sharing a cup of coffee with friends and chipping away at her ever-growing reading list.
Other Resources:
“Women Are People, Too” by Mallory Ellington
“Preaching Porneia” by Matthew Norman
“Is This Safe to Drink? Thoughts on Our Thirst for Intimacy” by Erin Moniz
Read more from Mallory Ellington: https://www.malloryellington.com/

Friday Sep 09, 2022
Friday Sep 09, 2022
On this episode of Mutuality Matters, hosts Mimi and Kim speak with Dr. Médine Moussounga Keener, coauthor of Impossible Love: The True Story of African Civil War, Miracles, Hope Against All Odds, Reconciliation for Africa, and Loved: Women Who Found Hope and Healing in Jesus. Médine believes that the Spirit of the Lord is at work in the world, and for those of us sensitive to the Spirit’s work, she shares how God can work in us to free people from oppression seen in sexism, racism, and classism. She illustrates the truth of these claims through stories from her own lived experience as a war refugee and scholar, as well as from her research and reflections shared by her many friends around the world.
Bio:
Dr. Médine Moussounga Keener (PhD, University of Paris) explores her life as a war-refugee, translator, scholar, author, and wife. Passionate about serving abused women in Africa, especially women at risk. Originally from Congo Brazzaville, Médine lived as a war refugee for eighteen months and worked as a translator first in Brazzaville and later in the US. Addressing her experiences of war and reconciliation, Médine has published articles in Dictionary of African Christian Biography, Africa Study Bible, and other articles on women in Africa. Medine coauthored with her husband, Dr. Craig S. Keener, Impossible Love: The True Story of an African Civil War, Miracles and Hope Against All Odds, a story of her war experience and her romance with her husband Craig. They also coauthored Reconciliation for Africa, a booklet on ethnic reconciliation currently used in many African countries. With Sue Russell, Médine co-authored Loved: Women Who Found Hope and Healing in Jesus.
Other Reading
Mary Slessor of Calabar: Biography of a Christian Woman; A Scottish Presbyterian Missionary in Africa by W.P. Livingstone
Exclusion and Embrace: A Theological Exploration of Identity, Otherness, and Reconciliation by Miroslav Volf
About William Shepherd: Among Kings: The Amazing Adventures of the Congo’s African American Livingstone and the Courageous People who Toppled King Leopold II by Joey O’Connor
Learn more about Hulda:
https://www.cbeinternational.org/content/women-scripture-and-mission#hulda
“Women Prophets in the Old Testament,” Priscilla Papers, by Christine Marchetti, April 29, 2018. https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/priscilla-papers-academic-journal/women-prophets-old-testament
“What is this Woman Doing Preaching in My Bible?” in Mutuality by Sara Ronnevik, October 13, 2014. https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/what-woman-doing-preaching-my-bible

Friday Aug 26, 2022
Friday Aug 26, 2022
This month on the “Women and Men Leading Together” thread, Rob and Layla speak with Sarah Cowan Johnson, ministry leader, and recently published author of Teach Your Children Well. From navigating unconscious biases to dealing with miss-titling, from egalitarian parenting to The X-Files, Sarah sheds light on what flourishing mixed-gender partnerships look like, both in the context of ministry and in the home!
Bio:
Sarah Cowan Johnson is a ministry trainer, consultant, and coach who works with church planters, pastors, and ministry leaders across the United States. She leads seminars for parents on family discipleship to help their children walk in the way of Jesus. She served with the Evangelical Covenant Church as an executive pastor and previously was a staff trainer and an area director for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. She is the cohost of The People of the Way podcast. Her book, Teach Your Children Well, was published this month by InterVarsity Press, and she and her husband have two sons and live in Providence. Find more from Sarah at her website, sarahcowanjohnson.com.
Other Reading
The Spiritually Vibrant Home, by Don Everts
Call Me Mother in Anglican Compass by Tish Harrison Warren
“Parenting as Partners” by Kathy Nesper
“Created for Life Together: Partnerships Between Men and Women Are Part of God’s Design” by Ruth Haley Barton

Friday Aug 19, 2022
Friday Aug 19, 2022
In this episode, host Angela sits down with Rev. Dr. Wilda Gafney, Bible scholar, episcopal priest and the Right Rev. Sam B. Hulsey Professor of Hebrew Bible at Brite Divinity School in Fort Worth, Texas. They discuss the importance of gender expansive Bible translation, which incorporates contextual consideration and raises the presence of women and feminine imagery that have been traditionally overlooked or underrepresented. Focusing on her latest work, A Women’s Lectionary for the Whole Church: Year W, she discusses how using gender expansive language enriches the reading, hearing, and application of the Biblical text. This lectionary also focuses on using explicit feminine God-language as a means of expanding our view and understanding of God. Words matter because they have the power to create or eliminate barriers to inclusion.
Guest Bio:
Womanist biblical scholar, Rev. Dr. Wil Gafney is the Right Rev. Sam B. Hulsey Professor of Hebrew Bible at Brite Divinity School in Fort Worth, Texas. She is the author of Womanist Midrash: A Reintroduction to Women of the Torah and of the Throne, a commentary on Nahum, Habakkuk, and Zephaniah in the Wisdom series; Daughters of Miriam: Women Prophets in Ancient Israel; and co-editor of The Peoples’ Bible and The Peoples’ Companion to the Bible. She is the author of a Women’s Lectionary for the Whole Church and translator of its biblical selections; the first two volumes, Year A and W (a standalone volume) were published in August. Volumes B and C are due in 2023 and 2024. She is currently writing a second volume of Womanist Midrash focusing on women in the Prophets.
Rev. Dr. Wil Gafney can be followed at www.wilgafney.com.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wil.gafney
Twitter: @WilGafney
Resources:
A Women’s Lectionary for the Whole Church: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/womens-lectionary-the-whole-church-year/9781640651623/pd/65162X?event=ESRCG
Womanist Midrash: A Reintroduction to the Women of the Torah and the Throne: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/womanist-midrash-reintroduction-women-torah-throne/wilda-gafney/9780664239039/pd/239039?event=ESRCG
“She Is in Bitter Distress”: A Womanist Ethic of Advocacy: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/she-bitter-distress-womanist-ethic-advocacy

Friday Aug 12, 2022
Friday Aug 12, 2022
Women in higher education must navigate a world that is not regularly friendly to them as mothers or as experts in their disciplines. When these professionals are in Christian universities, there are problems that emerge which require greater scrutiny of claims to be “family-friendly,” and how we treat female professors. Dr. Deshonna Collier-Goubil is the co-editor for Power Women: Stories of Motherhood, Faith, and the Academy, which is a multi-authored collection from Christian women in higher-ed. Enjoy learning about why this book and these intersections are important for women and those of us who operate outside of higher-ed. Christians have an opportunity to re-shape cultural spaces that do not prioritize Christian values and learning from these contributors is a significant start.
Pick up your copy of Power Women here: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/power-women-stories-motherhood-faith-academy/9780830853069/pd/853069?event=ESRCG
Bio
Dr. Deshonna Collier-Goubil, is the interim dean for the School of Behavioral and Applied Sciences at Azusa Pacific University. She has a holistic perspective of the criminal justice system, those who interact with the system (victims, offenders, communities), and the challenges the criminal justice system faces in today’s rapidly changing climate. Collier encourages her students to think critically and ethically about the criminal justice system, challenging them to study the system from differing perspectives while maintaining a core principle of integrating their faith with their career goals. Her research interests include race and crime, gender and crime, and prisoner re-entry. She has a PhD from Howard University in Sociology with a Concentration in Criminology, Race, Class, & Gender Relations. Her dissertation is titled, “A Spatial Analysis of the Effects of Neighborhood Deprivation and Foreclosures on Domestic Violence.” She has also served as a fellow for the National Institute of Justice and the College Board as a Social Justice Fellow. She is a co-editor of the book, Power Women: Stories of Motherhood, Faith, and the Academy.
Other Reading:
Power Women: Stories of Motherhood, Faith, and the Academy
Nancy Wang Yuen and Deshonna Collier-Goubil, eds.
“Watershed Moments? Reexamining the Barriers Facing Women in the US and UK Church” by Katie Christine Gaddini
“The Workaholic Mom?” by Susan Harris Howell
“Brokering Peace: Egalitarian Theology Meets the ‘Mommy Wars’” by Sa

Friday Aug 05, 2022
(Global Impact) Bearing Good Fruit with Scott Arbeiter
Friday Aug 05, 2022
Friday Aug 05, 2022
In this episode of Mutuality Matters, Scott Arbeiter brings enormous wisdom to our conversation on the global impact of egalitarian theology and human flourishing. From Scott’s examination of theological and social obstacles to his critique of organizational leadership and Jesus-style methods of evangelism, he vividly presented the ways that patriarchal practices can be dismantled through the lens of human flourishing. He provided powerful examples of practices that foster human flourishing by beginning with valuing girls and women as God’s image bearers! Like the United Nations Concept Note: 2021 Room 5, Scott also embraces people of faith as essential advocates of women’s equality in creating a safer and more just world. In concluding, Scott addressed abuse among Christians, a topic he addresses in his foreword to Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Faith Communities.
Trigger Warning: This episode mentions circumstances of abuse and infant death.
Bio: Scott Arbeiter has served in some truly inspiring leadership positions, including seventeen years as a partner with Arthur Anderson to Lead Pastor Elmbrook Church in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and acted is the former president of World Relief, an international Christian nonprofit organization that empowers the local church to serve the most vulnerable. Scott has also served on World Relief’s board of directors for nearly a decade. In August 2021 he retired as World Relief’s president.
Reading and Resources:
Learn more about world relief at https://worldrelief.org/.
Listen to the audio of Nell Green: “Advocating for Equality Among the Marginalized”

Friday Jul 29, 2022
Friday Jul 29, 2022
On this episode of Mutuality Matters: Women & Men Leading Together, hosts Layla and Rob learn from Drs. Quentin and Cindy Kinnison. Listen as the Kinnisons share how they have overcome barriers on their journeys toward a conviction that power is meant to be shared between women and men. They give us a window into what flourishing mixed-gender ministry partnerships can look like in academia and cast a vision for living as the beloved community of God.
Bio
Dr. Quentin Kinnison is an Associate Professor of Christian Ministry & Leadership and the Program Director for Christian Ministry & Leadership at Fresno Pacific University
Dr. Cynthia Kinnison is Adjunct Faculty and the Christian Ministry & Leadership Internship Supervisor at Fresno Pacific University
Other Reading:
How to Use Male Privilege to Create Space and Opportunities for Women in Churches:
https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/how-use-male-privilege-create-space-and-opportunities
Created for Community and Mutuality: Created for Community and Mutuality | CBE (cbeinternational.org)

Friday Jul 22, 2022
Friday Jul 22, 2022
In this episode of Mutuality Matters, Angela visits with Dr. Christy Woodbury-Moore, assistant professor of spiritual formation at Memphis Theological Seminary, as they discuss the responsibility of those with a seat at the table to embrace and include others. They also discuss how embracing one's personal narrative further empowers one to stand in such places to be vehicles of justice, restoration, and wholeness. So, come have a seat at the table and listen in!
Bio:
Rev. Dr. Christy S. Woodbury-Moore is a native of Jackson, Mississippi. She attended Tuskegee University where she graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Chemical Engineering. She also holds an MBA from the University of Minnesota-Carlson School of Management. Rev. Dr. Woodbury-Moore received a Master of Divinity degree and holds a Doctor of Ministry degree from Virginia Union University with a focus on the unique experiences of African American women. She currently serves as the assistant professor of spiritual formation and the director of supervised ministry at Memphis Theological Seminary.
Dr. Woodbury-Moore has a heart for African American women and the black community. Her dissertation, titled, “Give Me My Stuff: In Defense of Black Womanhood,” is a womanist exploration of the ways black women’s voices and experiences have been minimized in an effort to empower them to see the value in their own stories. She also serves on the board of Equity for Women in the Church, an ecumenical organization advocating for the representation of women’s key leadership roles in the church.