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Women, Men, Mutuality, and the Bible CBE’s Mutuality Matters podcast is part of CBE International’s online library of free resources! Hosts of CBE’s Mutuality Matters team offer weekly conversations with leaders, pastors, authors, scholars, activists, and humanitarians on women, men, shared leadership, and Scripture. CBE International (Christians for Biblical Equality) advances the gospel by equipping women and men of all cultures, races, and classes to lead and serve as equals. Founded in 1989, CBE has supporters and ministry partners in over 100 denominations and 65 countries, and offers annual conferences, adult and youth curricula, a curated bookstore, multi-media resources, award-winning publications, and a blog. Learn more at cbeinternational.org.
Episodes

Friday Apr 29, 2022
Friday Apr 29, 2022
In this episode, hosts Layla and Rob speak with Kim and Andrew Feil about their journeys to mutuality. In-laws Kim and Andrew Feil have each been on a journey of understanding the Bible’s message of gender equality through a combination of deep Bible study and lived experience. More than that, their journeys have intertwined together in a compelling way. Listen as they tell Layla and Rob about those journeys, the struggles they faced, and where they ended up. Don’t miss the end of the episode, where Andrew and Kim share prophetic words about how the church needs to change to better reflect God’s heart for equality.
Kim Feil resides in Fresno, California, and she actually loves living there! She is the mother of two children and the wife to an amazing guy for almost 13 years. Kim is passionate about the empowerment of women and seeing them become who God created them to be. Her daytime job is working at the local community hospital as a lactation specialist. She is also a volunteer, working with survivors of human trafficking.
Email: kimberlyruth.feil@gmail.com
Andrew Feil is a father of four boys and is married to Denise Feil. Andrew is the current Associate Director at Every Neighborhood Partnership which seeks to connect churches to serving at elementary schools in one of California's most challenged districts. Andrew is a former Missions Pastor at The Well Community Church and has a master’s in Social and Civic Entrepreneurship from Bakke Graduate University.
Twitter: @andrewsfeil
Email: andrew@everyneighborhood.org
Other Reading
- Jesus Feminist by Sarah Bessy: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/jesus-feminist-sarah-bessey/9781476717258/pd/717258?event=ESRCG
- The Blue Parakeet by Scot McKnight: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/parakeet-rethinking-read-bible-second-edition/scot-mcknight/9780310538929/pd/538929?event=ESRCQ
- How I Changed My Mind About Women in Leadership by Alan F. Johnson (Ed.) https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/leadership-compelling-prominent-evangelicals-unabridged-audiobook/9780310577478/pd/DA14789-CP?event=ESRCG

Friday Apr 22, 2022
Friday Apr 22, 2022
In this episode of Mutuality Matters, Angela chats with Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson, the John Hines Assistant Professor of Preaching at the Seminary of the Southwest in Austin, TX. Dr. Robinson shares her current research in mental health and bible interpretation, particularly in light of the traumatic psychological impact of the COVID pandemic within the Black community and the Black church.
Disclaimer: This episode discusses instances of depression and suicide. If you are thinking about harming yourself or taking your own life, we encourage you to reach out to someone – a friend, a church, or a family member. You can also call 1-800-273-8255 at any time to speak with a trained counselor.
Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson is a millennial Womanist homiletician and justice advocate who answered her call to ministry at the age of thirteen. Dominique earned a Bachelor of Arts in Government from Georgetown University, a Master of Divinity and a Master of Theology both from Candler School of Theology. She earned a Doctor of Ministry degree from Columbia Theological Seminary in Gospel and Culture. Her dissertation, "iHomiletic™: Preaching that Clicks," is a groundbreaking research and consulting service to assist faith leaders with developing impactful ministry that employs technology and social media linguistics. She currently is a Ph.D. student at Christian Theological Seminary in the African American Preaching and Sacred Rhetoric Ph.D. program.
Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson is the John Hines Assistant Professor of Preaching at the Seminary of the Southwest in Austin, TX.
Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson is an ordained itinerant elder in the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church and a member of the illustrious Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Incorporated.

Friday Apr 08, 2022
Friday Apr 08, 2022
Do you ever read Old Testament passages about women and wonder if God is truly for women? Are all the Bible commentaries you find written by men? Hosts Erin and Blake sit down with Dr. Lissa Wray Beal and discuss her articles and commentaries and how they are redeeming the stories of and bringing the women of the Old Testament to their important place in the biblical narrative. In this episode, we touch on: the topic of lament in the women of Jeremiah; what we get wrong about Ruth and Naomi; and the fascinating story of the five daughters of Zelophehad. If you’ve ever avoided the Old Testament because of how it seems to portray women, then this episode is for you!
Bio
Rev. Dr. Lissa M. Wray Beal is a Professor of Old Testament at Providence Theological Seminary, where she has taught since 2004. She is also a priest in the Diocese of Rupert’s Land in the Anglican Church of Canada, serving as an honorary assistant in a local parish. Dr. Wray Beal completed a BTh at Northwest Bible College and an MDiv at Taylor Seminary (both in Edmonton) before completing her PhD at the Toronto School of Theology at Wycliffe College.
Dr. Wray Beal’s work focuses on Joshua - Kings, Jeremiah and the Psalter, exploring their literary, historical and theological dimensions. She teaches the Old Testament as a witness to God’s character, and as preparatory for Christ.
Look for these upcoming projects:
- Jeremiah. Baker Commentary on the Old Testament: Prophets. Under Contract.
- The Book of Ruth in The Bible in God's World Commentary. Cascade Publishing. Under Contract.
- 1-2 Samuel. Baker Commentary on the Old Testament: Historical Books. Under Contract
Other Reading
- "'Call for the Mourning Women': Women's Songs of Lament in Jeremiah" for Evangelicals and Women Section of the Evangelical Theological Society Annual Meeting, November 2021.
- The Story of God Bible Commentary: Joshua
- The Bible in God’s Word (Series)
- Center for the Study of Bible and Violence

Friday Apr 01, 2022
Friday Apr 01, 2022
Listen to hosts, Mimi and Kim as they interview Rt. Rev. Dr. Emily Onyango in the Global Impact thread. Emily’s deep humility and focus on leadership as service versus power was profoundly evident in her life and vocation. Modeling herself after her Sunday School teacher, Emily remains deeply committed to girls, women, and youth. Emily models the confidence of Christian women, which she also celebrates in the women leaders of the East African Revivals in her book, Gender and Development: A History of Women’s Education in Kenya.
As Bishop in her community, Emily takes on the role of grandparents who nurture youth spiritually, socially, educationally, and economically. She reminds her community that while they lack economic wealth, God has given them great joy in their relationships.
Emily discusses her joy both in serving beside the male bishops, but especially in in serving with the second woman bishop Rt. Rev. Rose Okeno ordained shortly after Emily. She speaks of their sister alliance that gently reminds their brother bishops they are now joined by sister bishops in God’s work.
Bio
Last year Rt. Rev. Dr. Emily Onyango was ordained as the first woman bishop in the Anglican Church of Kenya. She serves as senior lecturer and dean of students at St. Paul’s University in Limuru, Kenya. She earned a PhD from the University of Wales, a ThM from the Asian Center for Theological Studies and Mission in Seoul, South Korea, and a BD from St. Paul’s University, Limuru. She is the author of Gender and Development: A History of Women’s Education in Kenya

Friday Mar 25, 2022
(Women and Men Leading Together) A Conversation with Eddy Ekmekji
Friday Mar 25, 2022
Friday Mar 25, 2022
In this episode, we are joined by our friend Eddy Ekmekji. Eddy serves as a pastor in Southern California and he helps us think about how to guide a community through the disciple-making process. If you’re in a faith community where your egalitarian conviction can struggle to be expressed fully, this is the episode for you!
Bio:
Eddy Ekmekji has served with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship since 1998, ministering in a variety of roles and on a diversity of campuses. Currently, he is the Regional Ministry Director in Greater Los Angeles. In addition to the work with InterVarsity, Eddy also serves part-time as the lead pastor of As You Are Missionary Church in Reseda, CA.
Eddy is married to Rhoda, and dad to Layla (16), Marco (14), and Liam (9). He loves roasting his own coffee beans, making his own hot sauce, and coaching a local BU14 soccer team. You can find him on twitter, @eddyekmekji.

Saturday Mar 19, 2022
Saturday Mar 19, 2022
In this episode, part 1 of Angela’s discussion with Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson, Dr. Robinson shares her firsthand experiences with intersectionality in her own ministry journey, which started when she was 13 years old. She discusses her childhood, being brought up in a church founded and pastored by her grandmother. She also details her decision to leave her family’s church as a teenager in search of her own theology and beliefs.
Bio
The Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson, is a millennial, Womanist preacher and justice advocate who answered her call to ministry at the age of 13. Dominique earned her Bachelor of Arts in Government from Georgetown University, a Master of Divinity, and a Master of Theology both from Candler School of Theology. She earned a Doctor of Ministry degree from Columbia Theological Seminary in Gospel and Culture. Her dissertation, "iHomiletic™: Preaching that Clicks," is a groundbreaking research and consulting service to assist faith leaders with developing impactful ministry that employs technology and social media linguistics. She currently is a doctoral student at Christian Theological Seminary in the African American Preaching and Sacred Rhetoric Ph.D. program.
Dr. Robinson is the John Hines Assistant Professor of Preaching at the Seminary of the Southwest in Austin, TX. She is an ordained itinerant elder in the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church and a member of the illustrious Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Incorporated.

Friday Mar 11, 2022
(New Voices) Motherhood and a Tapestry of Perspectives with Blake Dean
Friday Mar 11, 2022
Friday Mar 11, 2022
In this episode, Erin & Blake discuss the latest issue of Mutuality Magazine that is all about motherhood. This is a very special issue with many contributing authors that tackle a range of topics related to motherhood. Don’t let the topic fool you! This issue AND this episode are not just for mothers (and Blake and Erin will tell you why). You might be surprised with our guest author on this episode, but you won’t want to miss out on what they have to say.
BIO
Blake Dean serves as community outreach and communications manager for The Davies Shelters in Rome, GA. In this role, he actively promotes, engages, and educates the community about the immediate needs of their most vulnerable neighbors, while encouraging them to give self-sacrificially for the just futures of those in poverty. He is passionate about gender theology, justice, poverty relief, and the church catholic. He received his Bachelor's of Arts in Religion & Philosophy from Berry College and intends to continue his education in the coming years.
Blake is co-host of CBE International’s Mutuality Matters podcast segment, “New Voices: The Latest Conversation on an Age-Old Struggle.”
Further Reading and Resources:
“Motherhood” in Mutuality Magazine: https://www.cbeinternational.org/publication/mutuality-blog-magazine/current-print-issue
S2 E7: Gender Can’t Capture God (Podcast episode with Natalie Carnes): https://mutualitymatters.podbean.com/e/s2-e6-gender-cant-capture-god/
Motherhood: A Confession by Natalie Carnes: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/motherhood-a-confession-natalie-carnes/9781503608313/pd/608311?event=ESRCG
Scars Across Humanity: Understanding and Overcoming Violence against Women by Elaine Storkey: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/across-humanity-understanding-overcoming-violence-against/elaine-storkey/9780830852048/pd/852048?event=ESRCG
Holding Up Half the Sky by Graham Joseph Hill: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/holding-up-half-the-sky/graham-hill/9781532686122/pd/686121?event=ESRCG

Friday Mar 04, 2022
Friday Mar 04, 2022
In this episode of Mutuality Matters Grace Al-Zoughbi celebrates how God inspired her calling as a theologian not only by the support she received from her loving Christian parents, but also through her church community and via her husband’s affirmation. She describes the living faith of her Christian community in Palestine, one that stands in continuity with the early Christians. As a theologian and professor, Grace has a deep passion to recover and celebrate the contributions of Christian women leaders throughout history, particularly in her region of the world. Moreover, Grace has a profound commitment for women students from the Arab world in whom she sees enormous strength of character, vision, and promise—God's gifts for a better future for the church and region. Working to see their gifts welcomed not only the church, but also the academy, Grace serves her community with joy, irenic engagement, and a deep commitment to serve Christian women through church life and academic leadership. We give thanks for Grace and her powerful life of faith and passion for Christian women.
Grace Al-Zoughbi earned a B.A. in Biblical Studies from Bethlehem Bible College; an M.A. (with Merit) in Theology from the London School of Theology. Grace is completing a PhD with the London School of Theology with a concentration on the theological education and leadership of Arab women in the Middle East. Grace is the first woman to serve as a Lecturer in Theological Education at the Arab Baptist Theological Seminary. Married to Rev. Michael Arteen, together they share a passion and calling to advance the work of Christ in the Middle East, having served in different capacities in the US, England, Europe and Asia. Grace will speak at CBE’s August 5-7, 2022 Conference in Atlanta as together we Explore the Fullness of Gal 3:28.

Friday Feb 25, 2022
Friday Feb 25, 2022
In this episode of Women and Men Leading Together: Stories from the Field, Rob and Layla sit down with Tim Bushra, InterVarsity campus staff in Santa Barbara, CA. Listen as Tim brings a prophetic word about how Gen Z is thinking about women and men in ministry partnerships!
Further Reading through CBE:
How to Teach Mutuality to the Next Generation https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/how-teach-mutuality-next-generation
Seven Egalitarian Leaders Reflect on the Movement’s Past, Present, and Future

Friday Feb 18, 2022
Friday Feb 18, 2022
This week on the Intersectionality thread, host Angela interviews Dr. Kwok Pui Lan on her co-authored book with Joerg Rieger, Occupy Religion: Theology of the Multitude. Kwok discusses the occupy movement and how the multitude refers to the 99%. She emphasizes how the Bible heavily discusses the poor, those in poverty, and how this is central to biblical teaching. Other topics included economic inequity in the world today, holistic restoration, restorative justice, and post-colonialism.
Other Reading:
Occupy Religion: Theology of the Multitude: https://www.amazon.com/Occupy-Religion-Theology-Multitude-Modern/dp/1442217928