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Women, Men, Mutuality, and the Bible CBE’s Mutuality Matters podcast is part of CBE International’s online library of free resources! Hosts of CBE’s Mutuality Matters team offer weekly conversations with leaders, pastors, authors, scholars, activists, and humanitarians on women, men, shared leadership, and Scripture. CBE International (Christians for Biblical Equality) advances the gospel by equipping women and men of all cultures, races, and classes to lead and serve as equals. Founded in 1989, CBE has supporters and ministry partners in over 100 denominations and 65 countries, and offers annual conferences, adult and youth curricula, a curated bookstore, multi-media resources, award-winning publications, and a blog. Learn more at cbeinternational.org.
Episodes

Friday Feb 11, 2022
Friday Feb 11, 2022
This week on the New Voices thread, hosts Erin and Blake interview Dr. Diane Langberg on her new book, Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church. They discuss how power is a gift from God that should not be exploited, misused, or used for personal benefit. Power from God was given to us “to be like (God) and to produce fruit that looks like him.” Dr. Langberg discusses the work she does with trauma victims, how it is an invitation to the sufferings of Christ, and how we need to examine ourselves regarding deceptive power.
Other Reading:
Are We Continuing to Sideline Women in Conversations About Abuse? https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/are-we-continuing-sideline-women-conversations-about-abuse
The Psalm of Vengeance, the God Who Listens, and How I Learned to Forgive My Mother’s Abuser
Women’s Equality and How Churches Respond to Abuse
Her Twitter account: @dianelangberg
Her website: https://www.dianelangberg.com/
Links to her books
- Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/redeeming-power-understanding-authority-abuse-church/diane-langberg/9781587434389/pd/43438X?event=ESRCN
- Suffering and the Heart of God: How Trauma Destroys and Christ Restores
- On the Threshold of Hope: Opening the Door to Healing for Survivors of Sexual Abuse
- Counseling Survivors of Sexual Abuse
- Counsel for Pastors’ Wives

Friday Feb 04, 2022
Friday Feb 04, 2022
This week on the Global Impact thread, hosts Mimi and Kim interview Dr. Beatrice Ambauen-Berger about her work in fistula repair in rural Bangladesh. They discuss how the neglect and low status of women leads to birthing disasters and disease, and more specifically fistulas. This disease is marked by ongoing incontinence, causing women further neglect as they are ostracized from community and family. Join us in hearing Beatrice and her team’s work to bring redemptive healing that shouts of Jesus’ countercultural approach to healing such women.
To learn more about her work, see:
Dr. Beatrice explains fistulas on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpyqzkCJQL4
Aljazeera documentary featuring Dr. Beatrice: https://www.aljazeera.com/program/101-east/2016/1/17/too-young-to-wed-child-marriage-in-bangladesh
Follow the work of Lamb Hospital in Bangladesh at: LAMBproject.org
Reach the main donor for fistulas: womenshope.ch
Reach Dr. Beatrice Ambuen-Berger at: bea.ambauen@gmail.com

Friday Jan 28, 2022
Friday Jan 28, 2022
This week on the Women & Men thread, hosts Rob and Layla talk with Pastors Neely McQueen and Pat Swanson about their co-leadership, mixed-gender model for a healthy ministry partnership. Neely and Pat discuss how they came to agreement to co-apply for their church’s Lead Pastor position, and how they dreamed and planned together for their new partnership. They share how their co-leadership model is a gift to their congregation and how having a woman and a man serving together in co-leadership roles brings healing and causes restorative, redemptive work within the church.
Other topics included the different challenges Neely and Pat had to overcome as they entered their new partnership. They gave tips on how to be successful with their leadership model and provided their dreams for the future of the church and women and men working together in ministry.

Friday Jan 21, 2022
Friday Jan 21, 2022
This week on the Intersectionality thread, host Angela talks with Rev. Dr. Teresa L. Fry Brown about sounding the certain trumpet in the key of F—for female. She shares that prophetic preaching is based in God’s great love for all humanity and calls us all into right relationship with each other. It is not a black thing or a white thing but a love thing. She also shares from her book, Delivering the Sermon: Voice, Body and Animation in Proclamation.
Other topics included the need for soul care and time with God in prayer and self-examination for every preacher as part of their preparation and delivering of the Word of God in an impactful transformative manner.

Friday Jan 14, 2022
(New Voices) Ending Faux Egalitarianism with guest Tiffany Bluhm
Friday Jan 14, 2022
Friday Jan 14, 2022
This week on the New Voices thread, hosts Blake and Erin speak with Tiffany Bluhm about her book Prey Tell: Why We Silence Women Who Tell the Truth and How Everyone Can Speak Up. The conversation ranges from discussing cultures that perpetuate the silencing of women, Tiffany’s own experiences, and how we can move towards healthier spaces.
To keep up with Tiffany’s work, make sure to follow her on Twitter and Instagram @tiffanybluhm, listen to her podcast Why Tho and pick up a copy of Prey Tell.
Related Reading:
“Are We Continuing to Sideline Women in Conversations about Abuse?”
“Men Still Need to Talk about the Difficulties Women Still Face”

Friday Jan 07, 2022
Friday Jan 07, 2022
This week on the Global Impact thread of Mutuality Matters, hosts Mimi and Kim interview Amanda Jackson, director of the Women’s Commission of the World Evangelical Alliance (WEA) and recipient of CBE’s 2021 Lifetime Achievement Award. In this candid conversation, Amanda offers Christian women leaders strategies for facing hurdles preventing them from using their gifts based in her own experience, she shares stories of faith and expertise in reading Scripture in with new insights that support women’s leadership, she suggests very practical ways men can serve as allies to women, and finally, Amanda offers us strategies for preventing violence and abuse. You won’t want to miss this opportunity to learn from Amanda’s numerous and varied experiences and expertise!
Things mentioned in this episode:
Women’s Commission of the World Evangelical Alliance (WEA) (organization)
RISE in Strength (organization)
A news article about the christian network to end abuse (news article)
Learn more about CBE and the work we do!

Friday Dec 31, 2021
Friday Dec 31, 2021
In this episode of Women and Men Leading Together: Stories from the Field, hosts Layla and Rob sit down with Lisa Rodriguez-Watson, National Director of Missio Alliance. You won’t find a more honest and real assessment of the challenges and benefits of pursuing mixed-gender ministry partnerships, and Lisa’s passion for partnership should not be missed!
To continue learning from Lisa, find her on Twitter and Instagram @LRodWatson, and for more on the ministry of Missio Alliance, see www.missioalliance.org.
Read CBE articles published in partnership with Missio Alliance:
Biblical Equality and the Letters of Paul
9 Ridiculously Practical Ways for Male Leaders to Empower Female Leaders in the Church

Friday Dec 17, 2021
Friday Dec 17, 2021
This week on the Intersectionality thread, host Angela Ravin-Anderson talks with Rev. Dr. Carolyn Ann Knight about her personal experience of being called by God to preach over 40 years ago. This preacher, pastor, and professor highlights how she has navigated points of collision throughout her journey in ministry and pastoral leadership. Angela and Dr. Knight also discuss the importance of role models and mentors in our lives who helped open doors and advised her along the way. Let’s listen and learn!
Related Reading:
The Freedom-Faith of Rev. Dr. Prathia Hall Wynn
Reforming Mentor Relationships by Rereading Genesis 1–3
CBE Articles on Women's Leadership, Mentoring, and Vocation

Friday Dec 10, 2021
(New Voices) So, Are Women Equal Yet!? with guest Deirdre Jonese Austin
Friday Dec 10, 2021
Friday Dec 10, 2021
This week on the New Voices thread: The latest issue of Mutuality magazine just dropped and Blake and Erin have the inside scoop! In this episode, our hosts share their thoughts on the articles, providing an overview of the issue’s content. As a special treat, Blake and Erin do a spotlight segment with Deirdre “Jonese” Austin about her article. Enjoy this special segment and interview and then go read the winter issue of Mutuality magazine.
And don’t forget to follow the work of Deirdre Jonese Austin!
Read more CBE articles by Dierdre “Jonese” Austin:
The Freedom-Faith of Rev. Dr. Prathia Hall Wynn
What I Wish You Knew About Black Women in Ministry: An Open Letter
In the “Can we Man It Up?” episode, Erin and Blake interview Dr. William G. Witt, author of Icons of Christ: A Biblical and Systematic Theology for Women’s Ordination.

Friday Dec 03, 2021
(Global Impact) Sitting Down with Seasoned Activists Ron and Arbutus Sider
Friday Dec 03, 2021
Friday Dec 03, 2021
This week on the Global Impact Thread, hosts Mimi Haddad and Kim Dickson get to sit down with long-time CBE friends and influential world changers Ron and Arbutus Sider in their backyard (with Kim calling in via Zoom). They talk about the progress of positive change for women that Arbutus notes in her reflections from the time she was a young girl to today. Central to this discussion is their own change as a couple from patriarchy to mutuality. Arbutus’s reflections on Ron’s cancer and how that requires changes reflects the wider issue of how different seasons require changing roles. We also discuss Ron’s work with the Evangelicals for Social Action, and the impact of his many books on the Christian world.
Within the interview you will hear references to:
Leymah Gbowee, Mighty Be Our Powers: How Sisterhood, Prayer, and Sex Changed a Nation at War – A Memoir.
Ron Sider, Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger
Ron Sider, Good News and Good Works