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Women, Men, Mutuality, and the Bible CBE’s Mutuality Matters podcast is part of CBE International’s online library of free resources! Hosts of CBE’s Mutuality Matters team offer weekly conversations with leaders, pastors, authors, scholars, activists, and humanitarians on women, men, shared leadership, and Scripture. CBE International (Christians for Biblical Equality) advances the gospel by equipping women and men of all cultures, races, and classes to lead and serve as equals. Founded in 1989, CBE has supporters and ministry partners in over 100 denominations and 65 countries, and offers annual conferences, adult and youth curricula, a curated bookstore, multi-media resources, award-winning publications, and a blog. Learn more at cbeinternational.org.
Episodes
Friday Aug 16, 2024
Friday Aug 16, 2024
This episode is a part of the Home, Church, and World theme of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this episode we discuss dynamics of power, authority, and gender, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society. We’re joined by Dr. Mark Chironna, who is a Pentecostal bishop, semiotician, and founding pastor of Church on the Living Edge in Longwood, Florida. Dr. Mark Chironna describes how the church is strengthened as a result of women and men leading in mutuality rather than headship.
00:00 Welcome to Mutuality Matters
00:31 Introduction to Headship Theology
01:06 Interview with Dr. Mark Sharona
02:01 Debunking Headship Theology
02:36 Historical and Cultural Context
07:03 Women in Ministry: Personal Experiences
09:44 The Role of Women in Church History
13:17 Theological Reflections on Women’s Biblical Equality
26:48 Practical Steps for Church Leadership
30:42 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Bios: [Source]
Mark Chironna serves as a bishop in the International Communion of Charismatic Churches, and the presiding bishop of a network of related pastors and churches, as well as the founder and bishop protector of the Order of St. Maximus, a religious order in the tradition of the many orders that have existed in church history. He has pioneered local churches in Raleigh, North Carolina, as well as Longwood, Florida, where he currently serves as overseer of the Church on the Living Edge.
He has been involved in the proclamation of the Gospel for almost five decades now, internationally. His academic training includes an undergraduate degree in Music Education and Performance, while minoring in Religion from Wagner University; a Master of Arts in Psychology from Saybrook University; a Doctor of Ministry in Applied Semiotics and Futures Studies from George Fox University; and a Doctor of Philosophy in Pentecostal Theology from University of Birmingham, UK. In addition, he is a board certified coach with over 20,000 hours of coaching and coach-mentoring experience, spanning almost three decades.
Read Mark’s latest book On the Edge of Hope.
Related Resources
Pentecostal Women Leaders: The Interplay of Egalitarian Theology, Feminism, and Pentecostalism
Headship Madness: An Introduction to “Headship” (Part 1)
Home, Church, and World: What is Headship Theology? Part 1 with Andrew Bartlett and Terran Williams
Home, Church, and World: What is Headship Theology? Part 2 with Andrew Bartlett and Terran Williams
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Friday Aug 09, 2024
Friday Aug 09, 2024
Friday Jul 19, 2024
Friday Jul 19, 2024
In this episode, Kim Dickson talks with Dr. Nijay Gupta about the New Testament women he highlights in his Book Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church. Women who are little known to the average contemporary Christian come alive as Nijay discusses the world in which these remarkable women lived, served, and suffered on behalf of Jesus. Nijay describes the importance of letter carriers in the Roman world and the significance of Paul choosing Phoebe for this important work. He also discusses the translation and theological issues that hid Junia’s apostleship as a woman.
Bio
Dr. Nijay K. Gupta is professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary. He has written or edited over twenty books including A Beginner's Guide to New Testament Studies, Paul and the Language of Faith, and the award-winning and bestselling Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church. Gupta is also co-editor of the Dictionary of Paul and His Letters, and he is a senior translator for the New Living Translation.
Related Resources:
Find Nijay Gupta at his blog.
Resources mentioned in Interview
Nijay Gupta, Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and MInistered in the Early Church, (Downers Grove, Il: IVP Academic, 2023).
Paul and First-Century Letter Writing: Secretaries, Composition and Collection Paperback – October 22, 2004 by E. Randolph Richards
More CBE Resources with Nijay Gupta
Book Review: Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church by Brianna Cortez
Mutuality Matters podcast: New Voices: Women and Authority in the Early Church with Dr. Nijay Gupta
Galilee's Got Talent: How the Arts Empower Women
Mutuality Blog/Magazine: Why Deborah Makes All the Difference
Learn more about women in scripture and Christian history at ministrywomen.org.
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests that do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Thursday Jul 11, 2024
Thursday Jul 11, 2024
This episode is a part of a new segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this segment we discuss headship theology—dynamics of power, authority, and gender, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society as a whole. We’re joined by Petra and Garry Scott, leaders of the ministry The Road to Jerusalem. In this episode they discuss headship in ministry and marriage, as well as navigating the complexities of headship theology as African American leaders.
Bios: [Source]
Petra Scott, President and CEO of The Road to Jerusalem: Petra Scott embraced her call to exposing the body of believers to the significance of One New Humanity in 2004. She experienced a deep revelation of the significance of the Jewish Culture of Jesus and how understanding this can enhance the faith expression of believers. She believes that demonstrations between Jews & Gentiles can change homes, communities, and the WORLD.
Petra has experience in both the private and public sectors as a teacher, life coach, pastor, and consultant. She desires to see the philanthropic side of TRTJ flourish too something that will impact the kingdom. In addition to her passion for ministry Petra is a wife and mom, she has three children Darius, Devorah, and Isaac. She is the author of Intimacy: Unlearning Religion, Embracing God.
Garry Scott, VP of Community Engagement of The Road to Jerusalem: Garry Scott has a passion and call to those who have been forgotten in society. He knows what it’s like to grow up in poverty and become a causality of the streets. Garry has devoted his life to helping those who are hard to reach and outcasted. In addition to his work with The Road to Jerusalem he works as a Northside Community Center Coordinator in Jacksonville, FL. His desire is to see lives transformed and violence cease at the Lord’s Table.
Related Resources:
Intersectionality: Messages of Hope: Preaching and Mental Health in the Black Church with Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson
Celebrating Black Women Leaders in Church and Society
Mrs. Coretta Scott King: The Enduring Legacy of a Black Woman Leader
Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Thursday Jul 04, 2024
Thursday Jul 04, 2024
In this episode of Mutuality Matters, Rev. Dr. Marlon Winedt shows how the biblical narratives often oppose oppressive cultural practices. Examples include Mary and Mary who are portrayed as disciples. Jesus does not scold them for sitting at his feet versus feeding the disciples. Further, throughout Scripture, women are often subjects and not objects of leadership and discipleship. Consider Priscilla and Aquila, cited 6 times in the NT—texts in which Priscilla precedes her husband 4 of the 6 references according to the earliest, most reliable manuscripts. Later translations were altered in accommodating to patriarchal expectations by moving Aquila ahead of Priscilla.
Other places that minimize women’s agency and voice include the preponderance of masculine pronouns and words like “brother.” In such cases it’s important to observe not only inconsistencies but also patterns that demean women like using feminine words to align women with negative qualities whereas masculine language represents positive characteristics. Or when Paul tells us we are all adopted as “sons,” which is legal language. Even so, translations work to preserve the legal notion that salvation is universal which always includes women. Other examples include words used to accurately translate Eve as ezer, meaning a worthy, strong partner versus a lowly assistant, a subordinate or subservient helper… making clear that ezer is most often used for God’s rescue!
Marlon also considered the significant calling women had as church planters and as custodians of language, culture, and faith. In his region—the Caribbean—women led missionary activity—a leadership often not permitted in their northern context. In the Caribbean, the culture is also more pragmatic and women enjoy many roles denied them in the north. What is more, in the Caribbean, the narratives of Scripture have far greater weight than proclamation texts, here again elevating women often included in the narratives of the Bible.
00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters
00:38 Meet Marlon Winedt: Scholar and Translator
02:24 Exploring Biblical Women and Cultural Contexts
06:07 Translation Challenges and Gender Bias
10:09 The Importance of Inclusive Language
16:21 CBE Conference and Translation Efforts
21:06 Global Perspectives on Women in Leadership
28:51 Concluding Thoughts and Future Episodes
Bio
Rev. Dr. Marlon Winedt, a theologian, philosopher, and Bible translator, earned his BA in Theology/Philosophy from the University of Steubenville, Ohio (magna cum laude 1985) and his Drs-MA in Philosophy (cum laude) from the University of Tilburg (1988). He completed post-graduate work in Bible translation and linguistics (1996, 2001), earning a PhD in Bible Translation (1999), all at the Free University of Amsterdam. Engaged in Bible translation for 35 years, he contributed to the Common Language Papiamentu Bible and serves as a Bible Translation Consultant for the United Bible Societies, mentoring teams across the Caribbean and the Americas. He also trains translation consultants worldwide. Marlon, a pastor, radio host, and columnist, contributes to academic and popular discourse in various languages, with his fields of interests being, among others, biblical languages, Greco-Roman world, Performance Criticism and Creolistics. He resides with his wife Sandra on Curaçao, engaging in diverse international teaching roles.
Related Resources
Unveiling Old Testament Women with Accurate Translation
She’s Not a Whore: Pejorative Language and Translation Bias in Ezekiel 16
Vindicating the Vixens: How We View Bible Women Shapes Our Response to #MeToo
Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Thursday Jun 20, 2024
Thursday Jun 20, 2024
What could it look like for leaders to help their people embrace and embody a robust egalitarian conviction? “Emerging egalitarian” Dr. Jeff Liou, InterVarsity’s National Director of Theological Formation, joins Layla and Rob to reflect on his own journey with egalitarianism, and he offers a compelling picture of a theological formation process marked by humility, curiosity, deep community, and thoughtful encounters with difference.
00:00 Introduction
00:54 Guest Introduction: Jeff Liou's Background
05:17 Discussion on Egalitarian Theological Formation
15:18 Practical Advice for Egalitarian Leadership
22:03 Final Thoughts and Resources
Bio
Dr. Jeff Ming Liou is the National Director of Theological Formation for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship/USA. He is also an affiliate assistant professor of Christian ethics at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, CA, where he received his Ph.D. in Theology and Culture. Jeff co-authored a book with Robert Chao Romero called Christianity and Critical Race Theory. Additionally, Liou has written papers on race and justice, Asian American Christianity, theological ethics, and political theology. Ordained in the Christian Reformed Church of North America, Liou has served as a campus minister, pastor, and university chaplain.
Related Resources
Jeff references the four quadrant quiz he created, click here to take. The quiz will ask for your email, but promises to not use it to contact you.
8 Ways The Church Can Advance Egalitarian Theology
Does Egalitarian Theology Have Anything To Say To People of Color?
Becoming Egalitarian: Reconciling Experience with Scripture
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Thursday Jun 13, 2024
Thursday Jun 13, 2024
In this episode of Mutuality Matters, hosts Tara and Todd Korpi welcome Pastors Mark and Michelle Benson, co-lead pastors from Dothan Assembly in Alabama. Mark and Michelle share their journey of co-pastoring, highlighting the biblical call for gender equality in leadership. They discuss the challenges and growth experienced in their ministry, the importance of recognizing each other's strengths, and navigating environments resistant to female leadership. The episode emphasizes the significance of knowing one’s calling, maintaining humility, and fostering strong, supportive relationships in ministry. Listeners also gain insights on how co-leadership can positively influence church culture and leadership practices.
00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters
00:24 Hosts' Banter and Jingle Discussion
01:36 Introducing Special Guests: Mark and Michelle Benson
03:37 Journey to Co-Pastoring
08:58 Challenges and Triumphs in Ministry
13:17 Navigating Co-Leadership
31:33 Encouragement for Listeners
33:50 Conclusion and Resources
Bios
Pastors Mark and Michele have been lead pastors of Dothan First Assembly of God since 2016 after serving at The Rock Family Worship Center based out of Huntsville, Alabama for over ten years. Their passion is to make a difference in the lives of others by showing them the love of Jesus Christ. Pastors Mark and Michele have three children; Taylor, Griffin, and Camryn.
Related Resources
Women and Men Leading Together: Co-Pastoring While Married
Women and Men Leading Together: “Exchanging a Muzzle for a Microphone” with Rici and Phil Skei
How to Find a Church that Empowers Women
Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Thursday Jun 06, 2024
Thursday Jun 06, 2024
In this episode of Mutuality Matters, host Mimi Haddad welcomes Dr. Marlon Winedt, a seasoned Bible translator, theologian, and philosopher. Dr. Winedt shares his vast experience in Bible translation, particularly his work with the Common Language Papiamintu Bible and assisting translation teams across the Caribbean and the Americas. He discusses the joys of translating the Bible into local languages, enhancing their prestige and accessibility. Dr. Winedt also delves into the complexities and cultural nuances involved in translation, the ethical responsibilities of translators, and how new translations can influence the understanding and application of biblical texts, especially regarding topics like women's roles and intercultural communication within the church and society.
00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters
00:25 Meet Dr. Marlon Winedt
01:54 The Joys of Bible Translation
03:50 Challenges in Translation
07:41 Cultural Misunderstandings
10:53 Translation Choices and Their Impact
15:59 Addressing Bias in Translations
22:24 Ensuring Clarity and Overcoming Bias
30:07 Rediscovering Women's Stories in History
30:52 Exploring Bible Translations
32:23 The Complexity of Translation
37:03 Monolingualism vs. Multilingualism
42:38 Translation and Gender Issues
47:39 Insights on Women in Scripture
52:27 Marriage and Family in Translation
57:03 Conclusion
Bio
Rev. Dr. Marlon Winedt, a theologian, philosopher, and Bible translator, earned his BA in Theology/Philosophy from the University of Steubenville, Ohio (magna cum laude 1985) and his Drs-MA in Philosophy (cum laude) from the University of Tilburg (1988). He completed post-graduate work in Bible translation and linguistics (1996, 2001), earning a PhD in Bible Translation (1999), all at the Free University of Amsterdam. Engaged in Bible translation for 35 years, he contributed to the Common Language Papiamentu Bible and serves as a Bible Translation Consultant for the United Bible Societies, mentoring teams across the Caribbean and the Americas. He also trains translation consultants worldwide. Marlon, a pastor, radio host, and columnist, contributes to academic and popular discourse in various languages, with his fields of interests being, among others, biblical languages, Greco-Roman world, Performance Criticism and Creolistics. He resides with his wife Sandra on Curaçao, engaging in diverse international teaching roles.
Related Resources
Women and Words: Exploring Women’s Biblical Equality Through Bible Translation with Dr. Roy Ciampa
Women and Words: Why Are There So Many Bible Translations? With Dr. Jeffrey Miller
eLearning: Beyond Bias: Aligning towards God’s Vision for Women and Men in Bible Translation
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Thursday May 16, 2024
Thursday May 16, 2024
This second installment of a two-part episode is a part of a new segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. We’re joined by Andrew Bartlett and Terran Williams, two biblical teachers who have written extensively on women and the church. In this episode, Andrew and Terran discuss the concept of the 'tiebreaker rule' in marriage and argue for a mutualist perspective that emphasizes equal partnership over hierarchy. They talk about Junia as an apostle in Romans 16:7 and dispel common misconceptions about Paul's views on women, underscoring his empowerment of women leaders in the early church.
00:00 Welcome to Mutuality Matters: Exploring Gender Equality in Leadership
00:34 Debunking the Tiebreaker Rule in Marriage
01:15 Mutualism in Practice: Real-Life Marriage Dynamics
04:21 Scriptural Insights on Mutual Decision-Making
05:05 Junia's Role and Women's Leadership in the Early Church
11:14 Paul's Example: Empowering Women in Ministry
14:32 Final Thoughts: Encouragement for Men and Women in Leadership
19:26 Connecting with the Speakers and Further Resources
20:59 Closing Remarks and Invitation to Support CBE International
Bios
Andrew Bartlett QC is based in London and is a highly rated international arbitrator with a wide range of experience in dispute resolution in numerous locations. He has a BA in Theology (University of Gloucestershire) and has served as an elder and a churchwarden in various churches. He is the author of Men and Women in Christ: Fresh Light From Biblical Texts.
Terran Williams is a seasoned pastor, church planter, and Bible teacher to skeptics and believers alike. He authored Biblica’s Reach4Life youth Bible, with a print of three million copies in 30 languages, What’s so Amazing about Scripture, and How God Sees Women: The End of Patriarchy.
Related Resources
How God Sees Women: The End of Patriarchy
Men and Women in Christ: Fresh Light From Biblical Texts
Andrew and Terran’s “Response to Mike Winger”
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Thursday May 02, 2024
Thursday May 02, 2024
In this episode of Mutuality Matters, hosted by CBE International, Dr. Roy Ciampa discusses the significance of Bible translation and its impact on women worldwide. As a seasoned Bible translator and professor, Dr. Ciampa highlights how translations can shape perceptions of gender roles, stressing the importance of considering cultural contexts to avoid perpetuating patriarchal interpretations. He delves into the challenges of domesticating and foreignizing translations, the misinterpretation of biblical texts regarding women, and how translations might better honor women's roles in biblical texts and today’s context. The episode also explores the influence of English Bible translations globally, particularly concerning women's leadership and addressing abuse. Dr. Ciampa expresses his hope for future translations to more fully recognize women's worth and contributions, in alignment with an egalitarian view of scripture that sees men and women as equal in authority and leadership in all spheres of life.
00:00 Welcome to Mutuality Matters
00:31 Introducing Dr. Roy Ciampa: A Scholar's Journey
04:17 The Impact of Bible Translation on Gender and Race
08:24 Exploring the Greco-Roman Context of Biblical Texts
15:35 The Challenge of Domesticating and Foreignizing Translations
20:56 Elevating Women's Stories in Scripture and History
33:31 Dreams for Future Bible Translations and Women's Roles
35:08 Closing Thoughts and Resources
Bio
Dr. Ciampa has authored numerous scholarly essays on NT themes, especially on the interpretation of the Old Testament within the New Testament, but also on issues more directly related to Bible translation (including articles that address translation issues in Acts 17:11 and 1 Corinthians 7:1 that became footnotes in the CSB. He is also that author of a book on The Presence and Function of Scripture in Gal 1 and 2, and co-author with Brian Rosner of the Pillar Commentary on 1 Corinthians. Roy is an ordained minister.
Related Resources
Women and Words: Exploring Women’s Biblical Equality Through Bible Translation with Dr. Roy Ciampa
How the New Testament Turned Marriage in the Ancient World on Its “Head”
A Religion of “Women and Children”? A Christian Woman’s Place in the Greco-Roman World Before AD 300
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.