Mutuality Matters

(Women and Men Leading Together) Picking Up the Weight Together with Scott Sinner and Bekah Townsend

Pastor Scott Sinner might have “stumbled onto” the idea of mixed-gender ministry partnership, but now he and his colleagues at Green Valley Community Church in Placerville, California, operate out of a place of deep conviction. In this episode, Pastor Sinner and Pastor Bekah Townsend tell Layla and Rob how they live out shared leadership with an emphasis on a clear vision, a foundation of trust, and a commitment to engage one another with vulnerability and grace. Come learn from Scott and Bekah as they tell us how they “pick up the weight together!” 

 

Guest Bios: 

Rebekah Townsend 

Rebekah Townsend joined the pastor team at Green Valley Community Church in August of 2022. She preaches at weekend services and oversees their Next Gen. ministry. For the last twenty-three years, she served in a variety of ministry roles in many different places, but her passion has been the same. She is dedicated to helping people come to know Jesus. Bekah has been married to her husband Ryan for almost twenty years and they have three amazing kids. They enjoy traveling and going on adventures together as a family. 

Scott Sinner 

Actively leading and teaching in the church for over thirty-four years, Scott communicates God’s word through an interactive fun, storytelling style. He is passionate about the local church and believes that when it works right, it can change the world. Scott has been married to his wife Kellie for over thirty-four years, they have two beautiful daughters, two great son-in-laws, and one magnificent grandbaby. When not recovering from some injury, Scott enjoys playing basketball and golf. Growing up in the Bay Area has made the Sinner family avid Raider fans — proof that God has a sense of humor.  

 

Disclaimer: 
 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.  

 

Other Resources: 
Together in Ministry: Women and Men in Flourishing Partnerships 

(Men & Women Leading Together) Creating Safe and Thriving Mixed-Gender Partnerships 

Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Communities 

(Women and Words) Bible Translation as Communication with Dr. Diphus Chemorion

Host Dr. Mimi Haddad meets with Dr. Diphus Chemorion, a member of CBE’s Bible translation Old Testament team. Dr. Diphus Chemorion clearly and methodically describes the process of Bible translation primarily as communication versus theological exposition. The task of translation teams is to aim at biblical clarity in addressing their specific and intended audience. Bible readers can learn more about the translation priorities of each translation team by carefully reading and attending to the preface and footnotes in all Bibles where translation teams disclose their objectives, goals, and intended audience. 

 
Dr. Chemorion states that the goal of CBE’s Gender Accurate Bible translation (GAB) is accuracy related to the dignity and agency of women and men. The team has worked to elevate what has been downplayed through a clear process of deliberation, reading of needed source material, and prayer. When the team disagrees, even in heated conversations, they agree to and practice a discipline of prayer and sleep after a disagreement, and come together to land on a good decision, trusting the Holy Spirit to lead them. And, the Spirit has done just that. Dr. Chemorion says working with the GAB team is his favorite translation team he has yet to experience. 

 

An expert in Old Testament, Dr. Chemorion explored the translation process and decisions made in texts from Genesis 1–3, Job 2:9, Numbers 7:4, and more. 

 

Resources by Dr. Diphus Chemorion: 

• Dr. Diphus Chemorion is author of Community Participation in Scripture Version Design: An Experiment in Translating Jonah into Sabaot and Introduction to Christian Worldview: Meaning, Origins and Perspectives. 
• Dr. Diphus Chemorion is co-editor of Contested Space: Ethnicity and Religion in Kenya 
• Dr. Diphus Chemorion is co-author of The Quest for Gender Equity in Leadership, Published by House of Prisca and Aquila 
• Human Dignity: Interrogating Biblical and Cultural Perspectives on the Creation Mandate in Genesis 1–3 
   

Works cited: 

• God’s Word to Women, by Katharine Bushnell, MD. 

• Other resources on or by Katharine Bushnell, MD can be found at godswordtowomen.org.  
• More information on Katharine Bushnell  

• Dr. Christiane Nord 

• Books by Dr. Christiane Nord 

 

Guest: Dr. Diphus Chosefu Chemorion is an ordained Minister of the Reformed Church of East Africa (RCEA). He earned his BA in Social Work from the University of Nairobi and a Bachelor of Divinity from St Paul’s University. He also holds a Master of Theology from Emory University (Candler School of Theology) and a Doctor of Theology from Stellenbosch University in South Africa. Rev. Prof. Chemorion has served as an associate professor of Old Testament and dean of faculty of theology at St Paul’s University, Limuru- Kenya. He is also the RCEA Synod professor of theology. Dr. Chemorion has been active in CBE as a speaker and Bible translator.  

(Global Impact) Partnering with Courtship and Marriage Foundation in Zimbabwe, Africa with Rev. Herbert Mazonde

In this episode, hosts Mimi and Kim discuss CBE’s partnership with Rev. Herbert Mazonde as he works to restore the church to the heart of God with women and men working in partnership and mutuality. The team experienced some technical issues throughout the episode with Rev. Herbert’s audio, but even through the barriers of technology and distance, Rev. Herbert shows just how powerfully God is moving through CBE’s partners in Africa to make a significant impact for women and men, especially regarding gender-based violence and child marriage.  

 

Disclaimer  

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.  

  

Guest Bio  

 

Herbert Mazonde is an ordained senior reverend at Harvest House International Church in Birundu, Zimbabwe. He is an experienced church planter, having planted fourteen churches since 2006. But his true passion is the establishment of healthy marriages to serve as an epicenter of human-development that can transform underpriveleged and downtrodden communities. This passion and interest has led him to counsel marriages in over eighteen countries as well as become founder and director of the Courtship and Marriage Foundation. He is married to Rev. Thando and they have one daughter and two sons. 

 

Other Resources: 

  

Learn more about CBE’s Partners in East Africa: Partnering in Africa - CBE International  

 

Listen to “A Lie Long Planted: Unearthing the Deep Roots of Gender Based Injustice” by Medad Birungi  

 

Listen to Mutuality Matters podcast interview with Deborah Asio who oversees CBE’s East Africa partnerships   

 

Listen to Mutuality Matters podcast interview with Emily Onyango to better understand the East African situation for girls and women.  

  
Listen to Terran Williams on patriarchy in South Africa: (New Voices) How Complementarianism Just Makes No Sense with Terran Williams | Mutuality Matters (podbean.com) 

(Women and Words) Refined Gold: The Resilience of Strong Women in Scripture with Dr. Boaz Johnson

Building on part one, Dr. Boaz Johnson considers how women throughout the Old Testament are characterized by strength (Chayil in Hebrew). Part of women’s strength is the result of much suffering, like Job’s wife who becomes the mother of seven boys and three girls. The girls are named but not the boys. Consider the Song of Songs, the Shulamite woman was also a shepherdess who experienced much pain but also and exhibited even more strength. Consider Ruth who is considered a Proverbs 31 woman. She is also a foreign woman who had much to overcome including much pain. Consider Esther, also portrayed as a Proverbs 31 woman. She too faced unbearable circumstances, but God was faithful and evident in her strength. It is by passing through much suffering that we are made rich with insights and intimacy with God, particularly noted in the Psalms of lament.
Consider Psalms 22:1 “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning?” These are the 7 last words of Jesus on the cross. Scholars note that while dying on the cross, Jesus was singing Psalm 22-23 which are songs of hope! The translation team came to the conclusion that this is not a cry of despair. It’s not a question but a statement that God will not forsake those in pain and who are suffering. Psalm 22: 9-10 was translated by the team as: “You are the one who drew me from the womb. You made me safe at my mother’s breast. Upon you I was cast from my birth. You have been my God from my mother’s womb.” In this passage, God is portrayed both as the father and also as mother. Remember, that while Christ was dying on the cross, the disciples ran away and hide behind locked doors. But the women remained with him, listening to Christ sing as he died. These words were preserved by the women as they remained vigilant with their dying Lord. 
Throughout the podcast, Boaz expresses his delight in hearing the voices and insights of the women scholars on CBE’s translation team. The power of their collective wisdom will definitely bring much healing to our world overall, and to the future of Bible translation teams going forward. Thanks be to God!
Guest Bio: Dr. Boaz Johnson, PhD
Dr. Rev. Boaz Johnson (PhD, Trinity International University and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) is a professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at North Park University in Chicago, IL. His writing has appeared in publications such as Priscilla Papers, Mutuality, Christianity Today, and The Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society. Boaz is a member of CBE’s translation team and a sought-after speaker. As an Old Testament scholar, Boaz has served on CBE’s Bible Translation Team from the very beginning. See CBE’s website for more resources from Boaz.

References
Women of Strength, in Hebrew—Chayil
Who is a Virtuous Woman?
Correcting Caricatures: Women and Bible Translation
Finding “The Proverbs 31 Woman”
Psalm 22 NIV
Books by Dr. Boaz Johnson
The Marys of the Bible: The Original #METOO Movement

Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

(Global Impact) Partnering with SheLearns in Uganda to Empower Girls with Fred Sebaggala

In this episode, Mimi and Kim discuss CBE’s partnership with SheLearns in Uganda, East Africa, with the founder and director, Fred Sebaggala. Fred discusses the practical hardships and discrimination that women and girls face in Uganda and how the biblical message from Genesis through Galatians provides girls with the self-esteem to dream and pursue their goals.  

  

Guest Bio: 
Fred Sebaggala is the founder and director of SheLearns, an organization designed to empower the girls. Observing his own mother’s difficulties as she ensured the education of all her children, while she was an uneducated, single woman inspired Fred to change the situation for future girls and families.  SheLearns holds seminars, works with groups of boys and girls, and partners with churches and communities to change the realities for girls regarding their education, rights, and justice. Additionally, SheLearns addresses girls’ practical barriers preventing them from education by providing reusable sanitary pads so that girls can attend school. CBE International has partnered with SheLearns and their work in Uganda for the past six years.  

 

 

Other Resources: 

Visit the website of SheLearns to gain a deeper understanding of their work: SheLearns   

 

Learn more about CBE’s Partners in East Africa: Partnering in Africa - CBE International  

 

Listen to “A Lie Long Planted: Unearthing the Deep Roots of Gender Based Injustice” by Medad Birungi  

 

Listen to Mutuality Matters podcast interview with Deborah Asio who oversees CBE’s East Africa partnerships   

 

Listen to Mutuality Matters podcast interview with Emily Onyango to better understand the East African situation for girls and women.  

  
Listen to Terran Williams on patriarchy in South Africa: (New Voices) How Complementarianism Just Makes No Sense with Terran Williams | Mutuality Matters (podbean.com)  

 

Disclaimer: 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

(Women and Words) Women Pioneers in Bible Translation with Dr. Boaz Johnson

Dr. Boaz Johnson explores women Bible translators such as Pandita Ramabai (1858-1922) who, as a child, memorized thousands of Sanskrit texts. After coming to faith as a Christian, Pandita mastered the ancient languages and produced a Bible in Marathi—a very popular dialect in India. The work was completed on her compound called Mukti—meaning salvation. In all of history, there was never a translation of Scripture like Pandita’s that was entirely the work of women: from translation to printing, binding, and distribution. Pandita’s work inspired a contemporary of hers, Katharine Bushnell, MD (1855-1946). A medical doctor, missionary, and anti-trafficking activist, Bushnell encountered prostituted girls in India and elsewhere in the world. Bushnell was convinced that poor Bible translations were part of the cause since they portrayed women as inferior to men. Both women, Ramabai and Bushnell, did significant work to expose and upend the demeaning of women noted in failed Bible translations, a topic Dr. Boaz Johnson addresses throughout the podcast. Another woman mentioned was Frances E. Siewert (1881-1997). Holding academic degrees such as Litt. B., B.D., M.A., Litt. D., Siewert is credited as the visionary who initiated the Amplified Bible.
Dr. Boaz Johnson expressed enormous appreciation for the team he works beside especially the women Bible translators from countries outside the US. Their scholarly expertise, coupled with their experiences as women from varied ethnicities and cultural backgrounds brings fresh perspectives to their translation decisions. One example was their decision to translate Ezer Kenegdo in Genesis 2:18 as “one who walks ahead of the other” in a posture of defense and protection. Ezer Kenegdo a phrase most often used of God’s rescue of Israel. This is also how God describes woman in Genesis 2:18: one who protects and defends the man. Dr. Boaz Johnson then connects the characteristic of women’s defensive protection noted in other biblical women like Ruth, the Proverbs 31 woman, and the wife of Job. 
The episode ends by considering the women who suffer, the Mary’s of Scripture who through pain and trials become wise, strong, and prophetic leaders.  
Guest Bio: Dr. Boaz Johnson, PhD
Dr. Rev. Boaz Johnson (PhD, Trinity International University and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) is a professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at North Park University in Chicago, Illinois. His writing has appeared in publications such as Priscilla Papers, Mutuality, Christianity Today, and The Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society. Boaz is a member of CBE’s translation team and a sought-after speaker. As an Old Testament scholar, Boaz has served on CBE’s Bible Translation Team from the very beginning. View his bio and authored CBE resources on CBE’s website. 

Other Related Reading and Resources
Pandita Ramabai
Pandita Ramabai’s Legacy: How Gender-Conscious Bible Translation Impacts Christian Ministry
Pandita Ramabai, Social Reformer and Bible Translator
Katharine Bushnell
Workshop Highlight: “Male, Female, Slave, and Free in the Context of a Pandemic: In the Thought of Katharine Bushnell
What Katharine Bushnell Still Has to Teach Us Today
Ezer Kenegdo (Gen 2:18) Woman as protector and defender
Genesis 2:18, NIV
What to Say If Someone Says Women Are to Be Men’s Helpers
Short Answers to Challenging Texts: Genesis 1–3
Books by Dr. Boaz Johnson
The Mary’s of the Bible
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.  

(Women and Men Leading Together) “Call Her What She Is” with Maddie Cummings and Brooke Pland

In this episode, Layla and Rob sit down with InterVarsity colleagues Brooke Pland and Maddie Cummings to get a sense of Gen. Z’s perspective on women and men partnering together in ministry. These two women offer prophetic words to the church about representation, getting rid of gender-based leadership roles, and the importance of using the right job titles. If you have Gen. Z Christians in your life or faith community, this episode is a must-listen!  
 
Bios 
Maddie Cummings loves Jesus and joyfully serves in campus ministry with InterVarsity at CSU Channel Islands. She loves coffee and is a barista — her go-to is an oat milk cappuccino. She holds a degree in Global Studies and is always looking for ways to immerse herself and learn from other cultures. She would say she’s a socially introverted, emotionally self-aware, and funny gal! She’s quick-witted, blunt (maybe too often…), and a Swiftie. She hopes to make the world a better place by holding space for people to engage with Jesus in the hard things of the world! 
 
Brooke Pland is a campus staff minister with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship/USA, 
serving within the Greek InterVarsity branch. For the last several years, she has worked with the fraternity & sorority community at her alma mater, U.C. Santa Barbara, where 
she studied communication, French, and journalism and from which she is an Alpha 
Chi Omega alumna. She is passionate about empowering women in leadership in all 
spheres of influence, especially in the church. 
 
 Other Reading 
Pink Mirror: The ‘Barbie’ Movie’s Wry Reminders of Inequality 
 
Women and Men Leading Together: The Value of Shared Partnerships from a Gen. Z Perspective with Tim Bushra 
 
How to Teach Mutuality to the Next Generation 
 
 
Disclaimer  
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.  

(New Voices) A Visit to the CBE Bookstore with Elizabeth Beyer

Show Notes  

Did you know that CBE reviews books before recommending them in the CBE bookstore? Did you know CBE has created its own books and resources that are available? In this final episode with hosts Blake and Erin, CBE’s manager of learning resources and international projects comes on the podcast to tell you about her favorite books and what to be on the lookout for that will be new to the bookstore. While Erin and Blake take their final bow, we want listeners to know that the podcast and interviews with authors will be continuing as Mutuality Matters Podcast continues to bring you fresh and valuable content. 

  

Bio  

Elizabeth Beyer has worked at CBE since 2008 and currently serves as the manager of learning resources and international projects. She is also a writer and editor, most recently of Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Faith Communities. If you have a question for Liz about the bookstore or book reviews, you can reach her at ebeyer@cbeinternational.org. 

Other Reading   

Women, Abuse, and the Bible: How Scripture Can Be Used to Hurt or Heal by Catherine Clark Kroeger and James R. Beck 

God’s Word to Women by Katharine Bushnell 

Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Faith Communities 

Paul through Mediterranean Eyes: Cultural Studies in 1 Corinthians by Kenneth E. Bailey 

Discovering Biblical Equality: Biblical, Theological, Cultural, and Practical Perspectives (3rd Edition) 

Paul and Gender: Reclaiming the Apostle’s Vision for Men and Women in Christ by Cynthia Long Westfall 

Buried Talents: Overcoming Gendered Socialization to Answer God’s Call by Susan Harris Howell 

Are Women Human? Astute and Witty Essays on the Role of Women in Society by Dorothy L. Sayers 

Nobody’s Mother: Artemis of the Ephesians in Antiquity and the New Testament by Sandra L. Glahn  

  

Disclaimer  

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.  

(Women & Words) Translating the Old Testament Part Two with Dr. Havilah Dharamraj

Referring to the Genesis passages from Part 1, Havilah addresses the challenges of using all masculine for God, noting it’s impact on women and girls by assessing Genesis 2:18: “The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” Woman is too often described as “man’s helper or assistant.” But a more faithful treatment of the text would be woman as man’s “perfect comrade.” 

 

Even more important, we tend to focus on God’s maleness, versus God as a motherly father, or God as fatherly Mother. An unfaithful and overuse of masculine language for God leaves women and girls wondering if they are, by comparison, somehow inferior. Sermons too often imply that God is more male than female with problematic outcomes. More attention is needed to focus on the feminine characteristics of God.  

 

Consider Isaiah 42:14 (citing God): “For a long time I have kept silent, I have been quiet and held myself back. But now, like a woman in childbirth, I cry out, I gasp and pant.” And, if women preached more, these texts would come up and balance the preponderance of masculine language for God. This would be affirming to women and that God is beyond gender and uses both masculine and feminine images.  

 

Havilah discussed some of her favorite passages like: Judges 4:4ff focused on Deborah. “Now Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading Israel at that time.” CBE’s proposed translation of this verse is one you won’t want to miss! Deborah is a woman of flame! She goes on top of the mountain to signal the army to charge. She’s a leader, prophet, and a fiery woman. She an unstoppable leader. She is “high voltage!”  

 

The Deuteronomy 22 text was also discussed as it describes the rape of a woman which the translations “soften” what actually happened. It is very vital to make vivid and real the facts: calling out the fact she was raped. NIV also takes this posture, but we make it more clear throughout the text that the real issue is sexual assault.  

 

We discussed Exodus 21:10 as the text addresses a man who takes another wife again softening the experiences of the woman. But our translation brings out the power of the text to reveal with greater empathy the woman as well as the man in the text. 

 

We end with a discussion on “strength” or chayil in Hebrew in the book of Ruth. Chayil, Havilah points out, refers not only to strength but as status in the community. Boaz is described throughout the book of Ruth as a man of status or respect. And in Chapter 3, Boaz speaks to Ruth telling her she is a chayil a woman of strength. This is astonishing because as a Moabite, she was not even permitted to enter the community of Israel. They were viewed as an incestuous people. Yet Boaz calls Ruth chayil one who is outstanding in the community even as she reached out to him in the cover of night. But because she did so as a loyal daughter-in-law, who worked to protect and preserve the life of her mother-in-law (Naomi), she too deserves the status of chayil. 

 

Havilah ends her discussion with the Proverbs 31 woman as a leader a chayil. 

 

Guest Bio:  

 

Dr. Havilah Dharamraj currently serves as academic editor of CBE’s award-winning academic journal, Priscilla Papers. She is a Langham Scholar and has for years pioneered a better biblical understanding of women in Scripture. Currently Havilah heads CBE’s chapter in India. She holds a PhD in Old Testament, from the University of Durham, UK. Her research interests are Old Testament and Comparative Literature. She is faculty at the South Asia Institute for Advanced Christian Studies, India. With an interest in biblical narrative, she encourages the use of storytelling in the pulpit. She is author of various articles, commentaries, and monographs, as well as an editor of the South Asia Bible Commentary (Zondervan, 2015) and the forthcoming South Asia Study Bible. Havilah writes and speaks for CBE. She received CBE’s Lifetime Achievement award in 2019. 

 

Havilah Dharamraj’s Publications 

 

Books: Authored and co-authored 

• Altogether Lovely: A Thematic and intertextual Reading of the song of Songs  
• Ruth: A Pastoral and Contextual Commentary (Asia Bible Commentary 
• A Prophet Like Moses?: A Narrative—Theological Reading of Elijah Stories 
• Five Views of Christ in the Old Testament: Genre, Authorial Intent, and the Nature of Scripture (Counterpoints: Bible and Theology) 
• Challenging Tradition: Innovation in Advanced Theological Education (ICETE Series) 

• South Asia Bible Commentary: A One-Volume Commentary on the Whole Bible 

 

Havilah Dharamraj’s Articles 

• Published by CBE International 

 

Havilah Dharamraj’s CBE YouTube Lectures: 

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kzDLLnVRh8 

Disclaimer:  

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.  

(Intersectionality) The Narratives that Shaped Us with New Co-Host Rev. Liz Testa

Rev. Angela Ravin-Anderson welcomes new co-host, Rev. Liz Testa, and together they reflect on intersectionality and why it’s an important aspect of what shapes them as women, believers, and leaders. Angela and Liz reflect on their faith journeys and some of the narratives within their home or early development that shaped them, as well as how they have experienced being at the intersection of race, gender, and religion and navigated through the challenges and opportunities. Their lively conversation concludes with honest sharing about how God has called them to show up in the midst of the complexities of today’s world, and how they believe God is desiring women in general, and them in particular, to show up and make a positive, lasting impact.

Bios
Rev. Dr. Angela Ravin-Anderson, a native Texan, is an ordained minister with a true passion for seeing the people of God become an authentic expression of God’s love in the world.  Dr. Ravin-Anderson created the Streams in the Wasteland Leadership Institute, a training program to equip and prepare transformational Christian leaders, especially women, based on their unique personalities, passions, and spiritual gifts to minister to the marginalized. She is also a facilitator for Project C.U.R.A.T.E., a faith-based initiative to bring about racial reconciliation and social justice reform within the Christian community. Dr. Ravin-Anderson is an adjunct professor at Abilene Christian University within the Bible Department teaching courses in Old and New Testament Studies, Christian Leadership, and Spiritual Formation. At Wheeler Avenue Baptist Church where she serves as part of the clergy team, she gives leadership to the Social Justice ministry and develops curriculum for adult Christian education and discipleship training programs. She holds a BA in Behavioral Science from Rice University, an MBA and MHA from the University of Houston-Clearlake, received her Master of Divinity degree, Summa Cum Laude from Houston Graduate School of Theology, and her Doctor of Ministry in the area of Pastoral and Missional Church Leadership from the same seminary.
Rev. Elizabeth (Liz) Testa, raised bi-culturally in New York and Spain, is a pastor, speaker, creative visionary, and community builder who is passionate about encouraging people to embrace their gifts and usher in a vision of God’s reign as women and men of all backgrounds serve together, freely and fully. She currently serves the Reformed Church in America as the ministry executive for Women’s Transformation and Leadership and Equity-Based Hospitality.  In this capacity, she helps the RCA pursue a vision for the full inclusion of women’s gifts, influence, and leadership in all areas of the church and equips faith communities to develop equitable, hospitable practices that build and strengthen the body of Christ for mission in the world. Liz is the founder and host of the Lavish Hope: Stories of Resilience and Overcoming, a podcast that engages fresh perspectives from women and people of color. Rev. Testa holds a BFA (magna cum laude) from Syracuse University, and an MDiv from the Drew Theological School, where she was the John Heston Willey awardee for excellence in Pulpit Oratory and Manner. Her first career was as a professional actress and spokesperson, and she delights at how God uses those experiences to enhance her calling in ministry. Rev. Testa is currently a doctoral student in transformational preaching at New Brunswick Theological Seminary, NJ.
Learn more about Dr. Ravin-Anderson and Rev. Testa’s passions and projects:
Streams in the Wasteland
Project C.U.R.A.T.E.
RCA Women’s Transformation and Leadership and Equity-Based Hospitality
Lavish Hope Podcast

Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.