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Women, Men, Mutuality, and the Bible CBE’s Mutuality Matters podcast is part of CBE International’s online library of free resources! Hosts of CBE’s Mutuality Matters team offer weekly conversations with leaders, pastors, authors, scholars, activists, and humanitarians on women, men, shared leadership, and Scripture. CBE International (Christians for Biblical Equality) advances the gospel by equipping women and men of all cultures, races, and classes to lead and serve as equals. Founded in 1989, CBE has supporters and ministry partners in over 100 denominations and 65 countries, and offers annual conferences, adult and youth curricula, a curated bookstore, multi-media resources, award-winning publications, and a blog. Learn more at cbeinternational.org.
Episodes
Friday May 12, 2023
Friday May 12, 2023
Show Notes
Why is history critical for how we understand theology? Author, professor, and historian Dr. Beth Allison Barr discusses her two new, forthcoming projects with Erin and Blake. Listeners get a front-row sneak peek into why the rise of the “pastor's wife” role affected women’s ordination and why medieval history needs to be rediscovered by Protestants for the sake of women and men in our churches.
Bio
Beth Allison Barr is the James Vardaman Professor of History at Baylor University. She earned her PhD in Medieval History from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and is the bestselling author of The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth. She is also a pastor’s wife and mom of two great kids. She is currently working on two new publications: Becoming the Pastor’s Wife: The History of How Marriage (Not Ordination) Became Women’s Pathway to Ministry and Losing Our Medieval Religion: The Cost of Forgetting History for White Evangelical Christians.
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Other Reading
The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth
A Medieval Makeover: Women’s Roles Before and After the Reformation
The Pastoral Care of Women in Late Medieval England (Gender in the Middle Ages)
Friday May 05, 2023
Friday May 05, 2023
Show Notes
On this episode of Mutuality Matters, Dr. Mimi Haddad introduces the newest podcast thread, “Women and Words: Why Bible Translation Matters” with guest, Dr. Jeffrey Miller. Jeff gives listeners a window into the world of Bible translation and interpretation, and shares about CBE’s gender-accurate Bible translation team, their struggles, successes, and surprises. Learn about how you can support CBE’s Bible translation team here.
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Bio
Jeff Miller is editor of CBE’s academic journal, Priscilla Papers. He holds bachelor’s degrees in pastoral ministry and church music, an MDiv, and a PhD in biblical interpretation. Since 1999 he has taught biblical studies at Milligan University in eastern Tennessee. He is a member of the Evangelical Theological Society and has published articles in journals such as The Bible Translator, Leaven, Restoration Quarterly, and Stone-Campbell Journal and CBE’s Mutuality. He and his wife Dana have two adult daughters and two grandchildren. For a list of resources by Jeff, visit CBE’s website here.
Resources Cited
- Journals
- Books:
- Bible Translations cited during the Show:
- Common English Bible: (CEB)
- Contemporary English Version (CEV)
- The NET Bible (NET)
- New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
Bible Passages Cited
- Genesis 2:18: The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable (ezer knegdo) for him.” NIV
- Mark 5:25: And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. NIV
- Hebrews 11:11: And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she considered him faithful who had made the promise. NIV
- Colossians 4:1: “Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.” NIV
- 1 Timothy 2: 11-15: A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. NIV
- Isaiah 3:12: Youths oppress my people, women rule over them. My people, your guides lead you astray; they turn you from the path. NIV
- Ephesians 5:33: “However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.” NIV
Other Resources
Video: Gender-Accurate Bible Translation Panel
Beyond Bias: Aligning towards God’s Vision for Women and Men in Bible Translation
Friday Apr 28, 2023
Friday Apr 28, 2023
Show Notes
This month, Layla and Rob are joined by married co-pastors (and co-parents!) Rici and Phil Skei. Two themes emerged from the conversation. First, Rici shares her testimony of God speaking to her (while driving on the freeway!) about there being no limits on her ministry leadership. Second, the Skeis paint a compelling picture of joyful role flexibility, both in ministry and in the home.
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Bio
Phil and Rici Skei are both natives of Fresno, California. They serve as co-pastors of On Ramps Covenant Church in their downtown Fresno neighborhood. In addition to pastoring alongside Rici, Phil works as the assistant director of planning and development for the City of Fresno where he oversees the development of affordable housing and homeless response. Phil received his bachelor of science degree from CSU Fresno, and his Master of Divinity degree from the Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary (Fresno, California). Rici holds a bachelor's degree in psychology and master's degree in education – both from Fresno Pacific University, as well as a master's degree in Christian Formation from North Park Theological Seminary. They are both ordained ministers with the Evangelical Covenant Church and are contributing authors to Out of Nazareth: Christ-Centered Civic Transformation in Unlikely Places. Additionally, Rici published, Let the People Worship, a 40-Day Devotional which is being used throughout the Country as a way to develop and invest in both English-speaking and Spanish-speaking worship leaders and praise teams. Rici and Phil have been married since 2001 and are the proud parents of two beautiful daughters.
Listeners can reach Phil and Rici Skei at:
Phil-Rici Skei on Facebook
@philskei on Twitter
@riciskei, @teamskei and @onrampschurch on Instagram
Other Resources:
My Ordination Story: A Calling Affirmed
Building Confidence in Your Calling: Overcoming the Inner Critic
Friday Apr 14, 2023
Friday Apr 14, 2023
Show Notes
How would a marriage partnership shift when one person contracts a chronic illness? How should we address complementarian standards of gender roles in the home when considering the limits of our spouses? In the Spring 2023 issue of Mutuality Magazine, grief counselor and professor, Kailey Bradley writes about these topics and then joins Erin and Blake for a conversation about Ableism, gender roles, and the interdependency of the gospel.
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Bio
Kailey earned her bachelor of arts from Mount Vernon Nazarene University in 2012 and finished her master's in clinical mental health counseling at Ashland Theological Seminary in 2015. Kailey has a background in hospice work and feels that companioning and advocating for grievers is her life’s passion. She is a counselor at Refuge Counseling and specializes in working with individuals of all ages, with special interest and care given to children’s bereavement, complicated grief, perinatal loss, and chronic illness. Kailey has completed training at the center for loss and life transition and is a licensed clinical thanatologist. Kailey is also an adjunct professor at Ashland Theological Seminary where she teaches grief and crisis counseling courses. She recently contributed an article to the Spring 2023 Issue of Mutuality Magazine titled, “Caregiving & Gender Equity in Interabled Relationships.”
You can contact Kailey in the following ways:
Related Resources
Caregiving and Gender Equity in Interabled Relationships
Friday Apr 07, 2023
Friday Apr 07, 2023
Show Notes
In this episode, Mimi and Kim continue their conversation with Dr. Vandana Kant. Inspired by the example of Jesus as shepherd, she and her team creatively seek out the sick, hurting, and shunned women to provide transformative love, care, and value. After years of work that began in the 1990s with Dr. Aletta Bell, they are now beginning to see significant changes in the surrounding community.
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Bio:
Dr. Vandana Kant, in addition to her medical degree, has a master’s in public health (MPH). For the past fifteen years she has been the project director for community health and development projects in North India.
Contact Information
Email: vandana@eha-health.org
Learn More
A video about Dr. Vandana Kant https://youtu.be/DqxNg9Cd3Aw
Emmanuel Hospital Association: https://eha-health.org/
Duncan Hospital: https://duncanhospital-eha.org/
India’s Invisible Girl Project: https://invisiblegirlproject.org/
Other Resources:
Part One: Global Impact: Women’s Health and Status in North India with Dr. Vandana Kant
Helping Christians Set Trends for Oppressed Women in India: Ellen Alexander and Beulah Wood
Woman in India: Her Choices, Struggles, and Destinations: Finny Philip
Friday Mar 31, 2023
Friday Mar 31, 2023
Show Notes
In this episode, Mimi and Kim interview Dr. Vandana Kant who describes the health outcomes of cultures that favor males. Inspired by the example of Jesus as shepherd, she and her team creatively seek out the sick, hurting, and shunned women to provide transformative love, care, and value. After years of work that began in the 1990s with Dr. Aletta Bell, they are now beginning to see significant changes in the surrounding community for girls and women.
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Bio
Dr. Vandana Kant, in addition to her medical degree, has a master’s in public health (MPH). For the past fifteen years she has been the project director for community health and development projects in North India.
Contact Information
Email: vandana@eha-health.org
Learn More
A video about Dr. Vandana Kant https://youtu.be/DqxNg9Cd3Aw
Emmanuel Hospital Association: https://eha-health.org/
Duncan Hospital: https://duncanhospital-eha.org/
India’s Invisible Girl Project: https://invisiblegirlproject.org/
Other Resources
Read about the condition for women in India by Beulah Wood in A Theology of the Generations
Listen to Helping Christians Set Trends for Oppressed Women in India: Ellen Alexander and Beulah Wood
Listen to our Mutuality Matters Podcast Interview with Dr Bell - Founder of Raxaul Community Health & Development Project
Friday Mar 24, 2023
Friday Mar 24, 2023
Show Notes:
Enjoying the podcast? Take our survey and help shape the future of Mutuality Matters! Go to cbe.today/podsurvey.
This month, Rev. Elaine May joins Layla and Rob to share a hopeful vision for shared leadership in the context of God’s mission. Along the way, she shares a compelling list of practical tips, including emotional health and self-leadership, “gospel humility,” creating leadership pipelines that develop women into leaders, and intentionally modeling fruitful partnerships for the next generation.
Bio:
Rev. Elaine May is a ministry consultant with the Christian Reformed Church in North America. Elaine's consultation work focuses on the development of leaders who partner with God in his redemptive mission. She is graduating from Fuller Theological Seminary with her Doctor of Ministry in Lifelong Leadership Development this Spring. Elaine and her husband Greg have four emerging adults. The family's home base is in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
To connect with Elaine, go to crcna.org/womensleadership.
On Facebook: Elaine Van Til May
Other Resources:
The Experiences of Women in Church and Denominational Leadership
Friday Mar 17, 2023
Friday Mar 17, 2023
Show Notes
When considering the call of Christ on every believer's life, Rev. Stephanie Wilkins condenses it down simply to showing up to love God and others well. She and Angela explore how an ethos rooted in Christ’s love for us propels Rev. Stephanie as an activist and an educator to show up in a broken world and bring forth positive change. Going into the public sphere as a “first responder” of moral agency follows the path of Jesus to go where the needs are greatest. Doing what Jesus did, this practical theologian will inspire you to show up to love.
Enjoying the podcast? Take our survey and help shape the future of Mutuality Matters! Go to cbe.today/podsurvey.
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Bio
Rev. Wilkins transitioned from educating children to a second career working to serve God through ministry when she answered her call in 2013. She graduated from Southern Methodist University Perkins School of Theology in 2018 with a Master of Arts in Ministry. She was ordained as a United Methodist Deacon in 2021. She is currently working on her Doctorate in Ministry at United Theological Seminary in Dayton, Ohio. Rev. Stephanie works in the area of Social Justice and Community Engagement. She is one of the Associate Pastors of St. John’s Downtown. She has been involved in organizing the Poor People’s Campaign, Black Voters Matter, Pure Justice (a criminal justice reform advocacy group), and the Houston Society for Change. Rev. Wilkins sees her call as one that follows the example of Christ. “Jesus was what I would call a “first responder;” Jesus went where the trouble was, and that is what I am called to do.” She believes in the scripture found in Matthew 25 which reads, “Whatever you did to the least of these my brothers and sisters, you did it to me.” To be on the side of the oppressed and to work to alleviate suffering is her call and she strives to answer it daily.
Other Reading
Educator and Visionary: A Profile of Mary McLeod Bethune
Righteous Love: Making Space for Love Among Black Women
Great Love: Reflections on Jesus’s Inclusion of the Unnamed Woman
Means of Contacting
Friday Mar 10, 2023
Friday Mar 10, 2023
Show Notes
What does purity culture have to do with toxic masculinity? Author Zachary Wagner talks about his forthcoming book with Erin and Blake, Non-Toxic Masculinity: Recovering Healthy Male Sexuality. They discuss how both women and men are dehumanized by purity culture and toxic masculinity, and how Jesus and the gospel restores them both. Enjoying the podcast? Take our survey and help shape the future of Mutuality Matters! Go to cbe.today/podsurvey.
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Bio
Zachary Wagner is editorial director for the Center for Pastor Theologians. He is currently pursuing a PhD in New Testament at the University of Oxford. He lives in Oxford, England, with his wife and three children. He is the author of a new book coming out in April 2023 titled, Non-Toxic Masculinity: Recovering Healthy Male Sexuality.
Related Resources
My Kingdom for a World of Such Men: 3 Hallmarks of Healthy Masculinity
The Tears of Men: The Emotional Masculinity of Jesus and Saint Francis
Jesus’ Vision for Masculinity: The (Actual) Best A Man Can Get
Friday Mar 03, 2023
Friday Mar 03, 2023
Show Notes
In this episode, hosts Mimi and Kim continue their discussion with Dr. Beth Birmingham who explores egalitarian leadership in Christian humanitarian organizations. Birmingham gives clear insight into the day-to-day operations of Christian NGOs and reveals that their attempts at cultural sensitivity can lead to ignoring harmful patriarchal norms and gatekeeping women from leadership.
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
Bio
Dr. Beth Birmingham is an author, speaker, and chief facilitator for The Christian Alliance for Inclusive Development. As a previous full-time professor at Eastern University, she’s spent 25 years developing leaders for and serving in global development organizations, work that has taken her to over 30 countries. She is the co-author of Creating Cultures of Belonging: Cultivating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive (IVP, 2022) and past publications on NGO Partnerships, including Shared Strength (Compassion Press, 2010). Beth is a member of the Wheaton Consortium for Development, Gender, and Christianity. Beth holds a PhD in Leadership and Change from Antioch University, and an MBA in International Economic Development from Eastern University.
Contact Information
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethbirmingham
Email: Beth@the-christianalliance.org
Learn More about Dr. Birmingham
https://www.cbeinternational.org/person/beth-birmingham/
https://www.eastern.edu/beth-birmingham
https://www.ivpress.com/beth-birmingham
https://www.tearfundusa.org/beth_birmingham
Resources
Read Dr. Beth Birmingham’s book, Creating Cultures of Belonging: Cultivating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive.
Read a preview to Beth’s CBE International 2022 Conference Presentation, Speaker Highlight: Beth Birmingham and Eeva Sallinen Simard.
Watch Beth’s CBE International 2022 Conference Presentation, Video: Creating Cultures of Belonging: Creating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive.
Listen to our Mutuality Matters Podcast Interview with Ron and Arbutus Sider.